Accessibility for All

Transcript

>>Gina Rogers:  Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa.  Ko Gina Rogers tōku ingoa.  It is a pleasure to be here this evening, I am going to keep putting my glasses on and taking them off in the spirit of someone who needs completely different sight to be able to see. 

I would like firstly to come into the room this evening and to hear the energy about all the discussions that have been going on during the day.  I'm sorry to have missed it.  I heard someone make a comment about the fact that these are the same things that we've been discussing for decades, but that in no way takes away the energy for wanting to make change.  And I think that we have an exciting evening ahead of us with the launch for kōrero for change. 

But when you read through it as someone who has been an advocate and involved in the sector for many years, anyone with lived experience or with advocacy knows that seeing it presented in such a way that connects all the dots and sees that we're not making piecemeal change, as valuable as that is, but tying them together for real accessibility for people is fantastic. 

I would like to acknowledge all the many dignitaries who are here with us this evening.  Firstly to Jenny Marcroft and Joseph Mooney for hosting us here tonight.  It's lovely ‑ there you are, gazing around to find you ‑ and fantastic to see that we've got politicians from across the spectrum coming here for this conversation, knowing, as we do, that this very much crosses the political lines and is about what we value as New Zealanders, to have a country and a system that's accessible for all of us. 

I'd also like to acknowledge all the many people from the sector, including the co‑chairs Rebekah Graham and Amy Hogan, and of course Paula Tesoriero who is here with us and we'll be hearing from shortly.  It's great to be able to come together to further this important and ongoing conversation. 

Now as you might imagine I'm here actually to do some housekeeping rather than to say anything interesting compared to our speakers.  So should the fire alarm sound, please everyone evacuate the venue via the same route you entered and follow the directions of security and staff.  It's up to you whether you throw your arms in the air as you go or not.  And we'll all meet at Bolger Park, which is where Broadcasting House used to be, if you're in old money.  So it's just across the back there and we'll stand there and support each other. 

In the event of a medical emergency, obviously we'll support each other and calls can be made.  Earthquake, we know the drill.  It's an important time for cuddling, so stop, drop, cover and hold and hang on to your neighbour and make sure they're okay and you're okay as well. 

The toilet facilities are located, actually which way, are we heading this way ‑ we're heading that way.  This is why we invite MPs to these events because they have the added knowledge of knowing where the bathrooms are, so thank you very much, just heading out this way.  A reminder, of course, that parliament is smoke free and if you're able to please turn your telephones off.  Particularly my phone, if you find it, because I've left it somewhere and if my children ring you then do just answer their question quickly and tell them no, they can't eat fried chicken, they need to eat the dinner that's been prepared.

So this evening obviously follows the sessions already held today on why accessibility can't wait and why we have to take the change now.  For those of us with lived experience, as I say we know that it's about far more than small change, it's about big change.  I've been fortunate enough to work in the sector, and one of the things that stuck out for me when I was looking at the documents before coming here tonight ‑ I can't help it being a journalist ‑ is that I look at the numbers. 

And a few years ago I was privileged enough to pull together an international conference that was about employing people with intellectual disabilities and fair access to employment; the benefits for employers as well as for employees.  And the quote that I love to see is when we talk about people wanting to be in employment, wanting to have jobs, and we had this fantastic discussion about the privilege of paying tax.  Now all of us here, and it's such an appropriate place for it, are delighted to woo‑hoo for the privilege of being able to pay tax and the idea of participating in society, paying and having responsibilities as well as access to the same things as other people is incredibly important. 

I noticed that in your amazing report the employment gap, if we were to close the employment gap between disabled and non‑disabled New Zealanders, this alone could increase GDP by an estimated $578 million.  But before we go shopping we're going to have to do a bit more work here tonight. 

So it is my privilege and my pleasure to introduce Access Matters Aotearoa's Co‑Chair, Dr Rebekah Graham.  [Applause].

>>Dr Rebekah Graham:  Thank you, I'm also going to be joined by my co‑Chair, Amy Hogan.  Thankfully there is a ramp up to the stage. 

>>Amy Hogan:  Hi, I'm Amy Hogan.  I have the privilege of being Co‑Chair with Rebekah and welcome to this amazing event in which we're bringing together all the threads of a very long but very productive conversation. 

>>Dr Rebekah Graham:  Thanks Amy.  Kia ora koutou, I'm Rebekah and I worked for Parents of Vision Impaired which is a national charity that provides advocacy and peer support to parents who have a Blind, Deafblind, low vision, or vision impaired child.  Parents of Vision Impaired is very supportive Access Matters Aotearoa and obviously we don't have a lot of money, but they are able to free up some of my time so that I can Co‑Chair for Access Matters Aotearoa. 

It's a big privilege, and honestly most of what I do is just make encouraging noises.  This is a great idea, we should do that.  Kōrero For Change, what a great idea, we should do that.  A parliamentary event, marvellous, we should do that.  And then get to come here and speak, it's wonderful.

>>Amy Hogan:  And get fancy titles like Co‑Chair, we just basically agree with whatever Dianne says. 

>>Dr Rebekah Graham:  More seriously, it's really important to me as a parent of a child who has, not just a visual impairment, but additional challenges in life, that this is something that we get right for all of Aotearoa New Zealand.  Because I want her future and the future of all our children to be different. 

I want her to be able to work, to be employed, to be part of her community, to be able to live independently.  And too often that doesn't happen.  So I'm very excited to support Access Matters and accessibility, because I know what a difference that's going to make, not just in the lives of families right now, but in the lives of our children as they grow and participate in New Zealand. 

>>Amy Hogan:  And Aotearoa New Zealand has a long history of being the first and starting a lot of trends for the good, and right now we're playing catch up.  But I think if we get this right, we can become a contemporary society again when it comes to rights, responsibilities and obligations, including the semi‑privilege of paying tax.

>>Dr Rebekah Graham:  Alright, I believe I now hand over to our hosts, or is our MC introducing them, sorry.

>>Gina Rogers:  We'll stand together and do it.  This is all about us coming together.  It is our pleasure and privilege to introduce the Chief Executive of Whaikaha, Paula Tesoriero.  [Applause].

>>Paula Tesoriero:  E ngā mana, e ngā reo, raurangatira mā, tēnā koutou katoa.  Ko Paula Tesoriero tōku ingoa, ko Te Tumu Whakarae ahau i te Manatū Whaikaha.  My name's Paula, I'm the Chief Executive of Whaikaha, the Ministry of Disabled People.  My sign name is this, which is two bicycle pedals moving in a forward direction, reflecting my background as a Paralympic cyclist.  And I'm standing just above the height of the lectern and I have short dark blonde hair wearing a black top and white pants. 

And when I spoke at the workshop this morning I made the joke that success at the end of the day would be, when I was describing myself, that my white pants would remain white by the end of the day.  Promptly went back to the office, had a tomato sandwich and dropped a tomato on my pants.  So this audience could be a good jinx for what I say, so maybe I'm going to win Lotto this weekend.

Gina, thank you for your welcome.  Can I acknowledge Joseph Mooney and Jenny Marcroft for hosting this really important gathering of a wonderful group of people bringing fantastic and important and urgent ideas to a more accessible Aotearoa. 

Can I also acknowledge all of the members of parliament that are here tonight.  I have noticed more than a handful, which is fantastic and I think really speaks to what you said, Gina, about accessibility having that real interest from a cross‑party perspective.  I won't name all the MPs I can see because I know that I will miss some out, but I do just want to acknowledge you and your presence and the important perspective and work what you do.

Can I also acknowledge our wonderful community leaders, sector partners, other officials from government agencies, business representatives, thank you for being here.  Your presence signals a real commitment to building a more accessible Aotearoa.

I also really want to acknowledge again, as I did this morning, the leadership of you, Rebekah, Amy, Dianne, and the team at Access Matters Aotearoa for all the work that you do, and for continuing this really, really important conversation.  This evening marks a really important milestone; the launch of the Kōrero For Change, insights and recommendations.

I had a sneak preview of the report, so I've had the privilege of reading it and the privilege of attending a number of the webinars and speaking at some of them.  And I just want to acknowledge the huge amount of work that went into that and the rich conversation that it generated.  The insights in the report come directly from disabled people, tāngata whaikaha Māori, family and whānaus, carers, researchers, advocates, thinkers, creators, and doers, and decision‑makers.

The strength and mana of the report lies in the fact that it wasn't produced in isolation.  It was created with community by community and for the community.  The report helps set out a guiding map for the future.  At Whaikaha Ministry of Disabled People, we were really pleased to be able to contribute our funding to the webinar series and support for bringing the report together. 

Accessibility is fundamental to our well‑being.  It really determines whether people can participate fully in work, education, community life and in civic engagement.  But more than that, it strengthens society, gives everyone a fair go.  And when we design well for disabled people, everybody benefits.  It is an investment in people, in inclusion and in Aotearoa's future prosperity.

We all know the social benefits of accessibility and, Gina, you touched before on the report that Whaikaha commissioned through the NZIER as an update to the valuing work started by Access Matters Aotearoa.  And it showed that if we close the employment gap in New Zealand, we would see an increase in $578 million in GDP per year.  And if we improved educational outcomes for disabled people, we would add to that another $132 million to our GDP every year.  So there are huge economic benefits as well as the social benefits.

At Whaikaha, the Ministry of disabled people, we are committed to working with other agencies, with our community, with business, to really support programmes on accessibility.  Our accessibility work programme complements and will be informed by the Kōrero For Change report.  Our accessibility work programme is also designed to address the critical barriers in New Zealand around accessibility.

We established the Accessibility Advisory Group, some of whom are here in the room tonight who provide lived experience and insight to our work.  Part of the programme is the access activator, which people may have seen, calling for initiatives for us to fund to grow practical accessibility innovations across Aotearoa.

That important programme of work sits alongside implementing this year the New Zealand Disability Strategy, which aims to also improve access across five domain areas; health, housing, education, justice and employment.  And it also sits alongside implementing the New Zealand Sign Language strategy; critical for access to language.

So the report is not the end of a process, far from it; it is the beginning.  A beginning that invites us all to take what the community has shared and shaped and turn it into meaningful change.  So my ask tonight is this: read and deeply consider what the report offers, engage with its insights, be guided by what disabled people and their families and whānau tell us we should do.  And work alongside all of us who are all really trying to nudge things forward and create a more accessible Aotearoa.

Thank you again to Access Matters, and to everyone who contributed to Kōrero For Change.  Your voices have created a foundation for real transformation that we now all collectively need to do our bit to deliver.  So ngā mihi nui ki a koutou katoa.  [Applause]. 

>>Gina Rogers:  Kia ora, and thank you so much for that Paula.  I know that there have been some fantastic panel discussions during the day, and for those of us who've missed out we now get a chance to see one of our own.  And it's my pleasure to invite up Tim Wilson who is the Executive Director of the Maxim Institute who's going to lead us in this next panel. 

>>Tim Wilson:  Tēnā koe.  Great to be with you, good evening.  Thank you for that.  Look, I'm here so that we can summarise some of the discussions that we've been privy to today at the Access Matters summit.  So I'd like to call some people to the stage to help me with that because I will do a terrible job on my own. 

I'll call first Dr Kali Mercier from the Helen Clark Foundation.  What's that?  Oh, not doctor, but extremely smart nonetheless.  And also extraordinarily humble.  I think a certain class of person would have just grinned blandly and taken their seat, so thank you Kali.  I also call Daniel Clay please, Cerebral Palsy Society of New Zealand.  And I also call up Mojo Mathers please.  She is Chief Executive of the Disabled Persons Assembly.

I'm going to sit down because I think that makes everything a little bit more comfortable.  As a ‑ I think as a brief ‑ I've suggested titles, but what's been evident to me in the Access Matters summit is that data also produces stories and we are people of the stories.  So I would just like our panellists first to quickly say, express in your own terms who you are and why you're here.  So I'll start with the most humble person on this panel, Kali, could you start. 

>>Kali Mercier:  Tēnā koutou katoa.  Ko Kali Mercier tōku ingoa.  I'm Deputy Director at the Helen Clark Foundation and WSP fellow.  The Helen Clark Foundation is a public policy think tank and I work there to do public policy research on topics relating to infrastructure and sustainable urban design.  Recently did a report on age proofing Aotearoa, which is around our changing demographics and how we're going to cope in terms of providing infrastructure for people as they age.  And there's necessarily a lot of thinking in there about accessibility issues, so that's why I'm here.  Also in terms of lived experience, I have a daughter who's very disabled and so I can talk a bit about that and some of our experiences there also. 

>>Tim Wilson:  Kia ora thank you.  Daniel. 

>>Daniel Clay:  Kia ora koutou.  Ko Daniel Clay tōku ingoa.  He uri ahau Ngāti Whātua, Ngāti Pāoa me Te Ata Waiohua hoki.  Ko au te Hemana ko Te Rōpū Hōkai Nukurangi.  Kia ora, I am Daniel Clay, I am the Chair of the Cerebral Palsy Society of New Zealand and we support people with cerebral palsy. 

My lived experience is through my daughter Indy who's 13 years old, she's a wheelchair user.  So I've had at least 30 years of experience with disability and accessibility being the theme of today.  I'm also the Chair of the Housing Working Group that assisted with the Disability Strategy refresh and Co‑Chair of the accessibility advisory group among other things that I do.  So kia ora. 

>>Tim Wilson:  Mojo. 

>>Mojo Mathers:  Good evening, I'm Mojo Mathers.  My sign name is Mojo Mathers which is the sign for glasses twice.  I am the current Chief Executive for the Disabled Persons Assembly and I'm also a former member of parliament.  I was the first profoundly Deaf member of parliament from 2011 to 2017.  And I'd just like to acknowledge Julie Anne Genter who is one of the colleagues during my time in parliament, in fact we were elected at the same time together.

And I'm here today because accessibility is core, one of the core rights for disabled people that we want to see upheld in Aotearoa New Zealand, because it impacts on all areas of our life.  I'll hand back to you now Tim. 

>>Tim Wilson:  Kia ora Mojo, thank you.  And look, tonight the vibe is ‑ it's about half an hour before the pub closes.  I want it to be robust, contentious, if someone says something that you don't agree with don't hesitate to jump in but no fisticuffs please, and also we want to be able to articulate what the way forward is, given the discussions and the kōrero we've had today.

Let's just start with a summary.  Daniel, you're the thorn between two roses, the man in the middle I was about to say.  What grabbed your attention today and why out of the discussions? 

>>Daniel Clay:  Two things.  First, the emotional and administrative burden on people with disabilities and their whānau of navigating everything.  Accessing services wears people down.  My area, one of the things I do in my spare time is housing development up in Auckland, and that's one of my areas of expertise, let alone trying to get an accessible house.  The day‑to‑day grind is a huge burden for people. 

The other thing that came out, there's some great researchers in this group and in the community and in the academia world, is the data on the cost of inaccessibility.  And the upshot is clearly that if our world, our built environment, our systems and our housing was made more accessible, there'd actually be a net savings. 

So housing inaccessibility, for instance, goes directly to health costs, including carer costs.  It goes to ACC, it goes to injuries.  So we survey our members in the Cerebral Palsy Society about housing and holiday accommodation and the like.  And one of the things that comes through is the injuries that people face in living in inaccessible environments, and of course the long weight times to get an accessible home.  So there's the health costs, there's the employment costs, or the lack of employment as a result of, I think one of the comments was we no longer institutionalise our people with disabilities, but we exclude them through inaccessibility, and arguably it's quite a similar impact.  So all that potential saving that could be had if our world, our environment, our services were made more accessible. 

>>Tim Wilson:  I think what was interesting for me was the sense of an early intervention prevents greater expense, Mojo, further down the track.  So that was something that, in fact savings may be obtained if there are sooner interventions.  What caught your attention? 

>>Mojo Mathers:  Well, I think early intervention is critical, it has a life long impact on outcomes for disabled children.  I was born profoundly Deaf.  If there hadn't been early intervention throughout my growing up and, you know, providing me with access to education, access to learning, I would never have had the life opportunities that I now have.  So it's absolutely fundamental for disabled children to have their rights upheld to access the support they need and for their families and whānau. 

>>Tim Wilson:  And what caught your attention from today's discussions in particular? 

>>Mojo Mathers:  Well, I came in late, because my flight was delayed, but the key statement at the end that I thought wrapped it up really well was, we have been advocating for more than 30 years.  Some of us around still have been advocating for a long, long time, and the issues are the same.  But what she said was that we now have a wealth of data and evidence and research and reports that show the impact and capture it. 

So, you know, previously we can't act because we don't have the evidence.  Now we do have the evidence and we do have the data and we can say yes, do the right thing by us, by our communities. 

>>Tim Wilson:  Thank you Mojo.  And Kali, as a researcher, I'm sure this is ‑ someone who likes to deal in data, this would have been a feast for you.

>>Kali Mercier:  Absolutely, it was a really interesting day for all sorts of different reasons.  The things that jumped out at me, I would tautoko what Daniel said about the difficulty of navigating the system.  From our personal experience we felt thrust into a world which we had absolutely no guide or map for.  For example, it took us three years to discover we were entitled to $60 a week for my daughter.  It took us four years to work out we could get taxis and bus passes.  Just really simple things like that, there's no map. 

A lot of the discussion today talked about things like the need for navigators for the system.  Then someone pitched up with the idea that actually it's not navigation we need, it's a simpler system so a navigator is not needed, which I was like yeah. 

Also there was a lot of talk about transitions and how ‑ transitions between early childhood and school and education, tertiary and work, and how each time there's a transition that's not accessible, people get further and further behind and the result there can be huge disparity in terms of economic outcomes.

>>Tim Wilson:  Actually the crystallising phrase for me was one of the commentators said you need a PhD in bureaucracy to navigate the system.

>>Kali Mercier:  That's right, it's absolutely exhausting.

>>Tim Wilson:  Absolutely exhausting, and also again, to Daniel's comment, the emotional exhaustion and fatigue that that induces.  So let's try and get it down to NCEA level, are we agreed? 

>>Kali Mercier:  Absolutely, get it down to NCEA level, but also the poverty that can come out of it.  So we heard about IHC research that people with intellectual disabilities are three times as likely to lack basic necessities, for example.

Certainly in my personal family, my sister is on the supported living payment, was offered an amazing job illustrating a book for $10,000, went to WINZ, told them what she was getting, got absolutely zero dollars out of that in the end.  So just every single piece of earning that she got there was clawed back. 

And just like the question there is, are we wanting people to just survive, or are we wanting them to thrive; because that money could have helped her progress in all kinds of different ways; her health and help her get back into full‑time work even potentially.  So things like that jumped out really strongly today. 

>>Tim Wilson:  And also the sense that the system currently actually penalises the ambition to rise up, to be able to.  So, for example, in the case of your sister and the book, that that process of doing the illustrations would have allowed her to move on perhaps to other things.  And it's formative as well. 

I think, Daniel, just reflecting on the importance of employment.  That was something that really stuck out for me too, that people with disability struggle to be employed because of a variety of factors.  Did that catch you as well? 

>>Daniel Clay:  Yeah, look, people with disabilities are at the bottom of all the good stats and the top of the bad stats essentially.  Fundamentally income levels are low and that affects everything, and it starts with education, inclusion in education, going through that myself with a 13 year old daughter in a wheelchair, moving on to employment, income, housing, public housing versus housing rentals or ownership.  So it permeates throughout the whole system, and if we can achieve access inability all of those domains, it's going to basically lift the tide. 

And look, one of the other things that came out today is we're all in this room preaching to the choir.  Albeit with some good data.  Your point's a strong one, what's changed over the last 30 years; not the need, not the passion, but the data.  So we've got that data now and now the question is, what do we do with it. 

It's great to be able to have the privilege to be in here and have some of our leaders, our MPs in here.  We need to gather up that data, we need to have a ‑ and the Access Matters report's a great next step ‑ a publicity campaign, because Kiwis are not ableist on purpose.  A lot of Kiwis are just ignorant to the challenges and to the effects of an inaccessible world.  And I'm sure that if our community understood, they would support it and in turn our Parliamentarians, our law‑makers will support it. 

Because ultimately it's the R word, and I mean regulation.  We've gone through the accessibility bill, and that's on the side, but it could come back.  It's ultimately about regulation, but to get there we need to win the hearts and minds, and we do that simply with data and information coming from the disability community. 

There are some things we can do short of regulation, so it's not all or nothing, and I'm happy to talk about that in terms of housing, but I don't know how long you've got.  And I forgot what your question was, Tim. 

>>Tim Wilson:  You know what, my question's are merely a prompt.  So you've taken the ball and run with it.  Actually this is the ‑ I think it was the great thing about the day was that there's a mixture of new data and also stories and anecdotes.  Mojo, I just wonder, is there an anecdote you heard today at the summit that encapsulated some of the issues we're grappling with?  It may be a personal story, or it may be something, a comment that was made that triggered something in your own experience.  Would you like to share that please? 

>>Mojo Mathers:  A lot of the discussion was around access to buildings and just the sheer importance of access to public spaces.  And in fact it reinforced the submissions that were made to the previous Accessibility for New Zealanders Bill, where there was over 500 submissions made by disabled people and organisations. 

And there were more than 400 stories shared of the barriers that disabled people face.  And more than 200 of them were just about the barriers to accessing public spaces, public buildings, and transport.  And then the next biggest number of stories about barriers were about access to information and communication, including the digital divide.  These are fundamental barriers that impact, ripple impact throughout all areas of life. 

But the other way I think of it is if you're excluded from a public space because of accessibility barriers, that is a form of segregation.  You're being segregated from society, you can't participate in public life.  And the thing is, is that all of us are impacted by inaccessible buildings in one form or another, whether we're directly disabled, or because we have a whānau or family member who's disabled, or because we may become disabled at some point in our lives, whether it's from aging, or whether it's because we have an injury, or whether we get a stroke or a chronic illness.  We have hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders impacted by chronic illnesses that mean that accessibility now is becoming increasingly important. 

So if we want to future‑proof our society, if we want to more resilient society, then we have to have accessibility as business as usual, not as an optional nice to have.  It's fundamental. 

>>Tim Wilson:  I'll get out of the way because I know you're fired up about this, you've done research on it Kali.

>>Kali Mercier:  Well no, I was wanting to comment from personal experience actually on the chronic illness thing that Mojo mentions.  We've got something like 400,000 people that have experienced Long Covid in New Zealand, the data was out last week, 185,000 people that are currently living with it.  We've also got tens of thousands of people with chronic fatigue.  One of them's my daughter who's severely disabled from it, is in bed most of the day, needs help washing, needs all her food brought to her, can only leave the house in a wheelchair; is not disabled because she has chronic fatigue. 

So one of the things that I really would push hard for people here is whether we could accept that Long Covid and ME are really disabling conditions, whether we could place disability eligibility on function rather than on diagnosis, whether we could get support for carers of people with long‑term illnesses.  That's something I really feel passionate about from my personal experience, so glad I got the chance to bring that up.

>>Tim Wilson:  Good, good.  Also one of the moments for me in the summit was when you were talking about the demographic issues that we are going to face as a country and how that will broaden, I think, the population that are now people with disabilities.  And also add a sense of urgency to an issue, and again, that phrase "business as usual" won't do it because business is changing.  Can you unpack that a bit more? 

>>Kali Mercier:  Yeah, so I think the work on aging, the intersection between aging and accessibility and infrastructure is a really important one that we haven't really got our heads around very well strategically in terms of systems thinking in New Zealand.  We've got this massive bulge of aging demographic, we're going to have within 25 years twice the number of over 65s, within 35 years three or four times the number of people aged 85 or older. 

And when you think about the fact that the general population about 17% would be identifying themselves as disabled, within the over 65 population it's more like 60%, nearly 60%.  So we've got this massive bulge of people coming, 700,000 people over 65 within 25 years are going to be all competing for infrastructure such as housing and aged care and so on.  And I think particularly in housing I'm really worried about the lack of accessible housing.  It's already incredibly difficult to get accessible housing.  The private rental market I think there's something like 2% accessible housing. 

How does that look when you've got this massive bulge of older people coming through.  A little bit concerned about that.  So I think we need to be doing some really serious population planning there, and we need to be making sure we're getting more and more public housing, building it, but making sure it's also accessible, and we need to be providing incentives also for private housing to become more accessible as well.

>>Tim Wilson:  Thank you Kali.  Daniel, housing is one of your areas of experience, amongst other things, but also wisdom.  What would you add to what Kali said? 

>>Daniel Clay:  If I could just first speak to the public representatives in the room.  Think of the voting block.  We've got 17% of people with disabilities plus the aging population.  This is a growing issue and it's not going to go away.  I'm not a politician, but it seems to me to be a political winner.  Apart from the justice and societal equity that's involved with making our country more accessible. 

>>Tim Wilson:  So what you're saying is that what may be seen at the moment as an issue affecting a particular community will be more broadly resonant throughout the country in future.

>>Daniel Clay:  Yeah, the disability population will grow as a result of the aging population.  Kali's got some great stats on that.  Just on housing, let's step back; housing is a fundamental human right, the Declaration of the Rights on People With Disabilities confirms that.  But we know that.  We all go home to our safe, comfortable home and a lot of our disability community members don't have that privilege.  So housing's hugely important. 

I think the first thing with a lot of these kōrero is we're actually not starting, or should try and avoid starting from a blank sheet, because there's been so much work done.  And on housing I go straight to the Disability Strategy.  Some great work was done, led by Whaikaha, last year; we've got actions coming out of that.  They really reflect the deficit in housing.  So I think the stat is 2% of housing is accessible and then you put quote marks around "accessible".  Some of them are accessible‑ish. 

So one of the workstreams that's coming out of that is to actually understand what accessibility means.  There needs to be tiers of accessibility.  Accessibility for one person is not the same for another person.  A focus on high needs.  So there's a lot of work being done in terms of definitions, guidelines.  Kāinga Ora in particular, it'll be no surprise to people with disability, there's more of those on the housing register and more of those waiting for accessible houses. 

So when Kāinga Ora aim for 15% of accessible housing, that's great, even though your research says some positions are it should be 80% odd to deal with this growing population.  What exactly is that?  A developer friend of mine took me to his accessible house, I opened the door and there was a staircase straight ahead.  That may be accessible for some of our community, but it's not accessible for a lot of them. 

So short of regulation, which is absolutely missing in terms of private housing, what can we do?  One, implement the Disability Strategy as it relates to housing; and two, incentivise the private sector.  So I work in the private sector in terms of housing development, you know, corporates are rational creatures, they respond to incentives.  And at the moment there's zero incentives to building accessible housing at scale. 

So there's a couple of ways to incentivise it.  Firstly is to shine a light on it.  I think accessibility, housing and more generally, should come into our ESG reporting.  Our environmental, our social governance reporting.  It's all quite focused on carbon at the moment, but we need to get in the S, the social accessibility in there. 

Also there's a lot of ways to incentivise private development through Crown land, through council land and the deals you can do with that.  We incentivise affordable, housing, public housing, build to rent; why can't we add accessible housing as well?  I could go on but I'm getting the evils from Natasha. 

>>Tim Wilson:  And you don't want to get evils from Natasha, I can promise you that. 

Mojo, we're coming into land, so to speak.  Daniel just made a pitch to the MPs in the room about how they can obtain re‑election by surfing a demographic tsunami back into office.  I'll underline that.  Let's just pause and say okay, if there's one thing you want the members to take away from this kōrero, Mojo, what would it be, and why? 

>>Mojo Mathers:  No matter what portfolio you have, or what ministry you're responsible for, disabled people are part of your community and your demographic.  And there'll be some way that you can improve accessibility for us somewhere in your portfolio.  It's a whole of government issue, it's not a single person.  It's not up to Whaikaha alone to try and solve everything for all of your ministries.  All of you should be able to step up and work with us and we will tell you what the answers are for us and what we need and hope that you listen to us.  So that would be my key message. 

>>Tim Wilson:  Kia ora Mojo.  Kali.

>>Kali Mercier:  I'd like to see cross‑party agreement that we need strategic, long‑term vision for infrastructure planning, given the changing demographics in New Zealand, given that will have a big impact on mobility and accessibility over time.  Especially ‑ that's not just housing, that's for urban design, aged care, public transport, and obviously healthcare as well. 

So some kind of national cross‑government leadership body on aging and accessibility which could be mandated to produce long‑term designs.  And also think strategically about systems; how we can spend money here to save money here, so it's not each agency thinking about what it needs to do itself, but maybe we can actually save money by putting more money into benefits, for example, or helping people with their housing to make it more accessible so they don't have to go into hospital, that kind of thing. 

And another thing there, which I'm going to add quickly, is we need really good data collection, just drawing on that researcher thing.  And particularly proper population planning.  Because we're not really ‑ we don't have a government policy statement on population, we don't have a really clear vision of where we're going, we don't have a good sense of which regions are going to be burdened in which ways, we don't then think well actually we need this many hospitals over here and we need this many aged facilities here and we need this many accessible houses here because we know it's going to look like this in X years, we're not doing that thinking.  So can we start doing that thinking. 

>>Tim Wilson:  But Kali, we're Kiwis, we just respond to crises.

>>Kali Mercier:  Yeah, we like to throw money at crises as they come along, yeah.

>>Tim Wilson:  Look, and I would add to that just one of the takeaways that I would certainly appeal to you about is accessibility to employment.  As you all know walking these halls, the jobs that we do form us, they train us, they shape us, they are vocational, but they are also pragmatic.  So to be able to have more people who have disabilities, people with disabilities in work will then, I think, take some of the pressure of the system.  So enable that, don't penalise people with disabilities for getting jobs, encourage them to do that. 

And Maxim Institute has done some research on that and much of the issues still hold up we did a few years back.  So look, the ball is now in your court and we're about to launch this astounding piece of research.  But I ask you to put your hands together for our panellists please, thank you.  [Applause]

>>Gina Rogers:  Kia ora, and thank you all very much for your time.  I want to welcome the honourable Casey Costello who has joined us and also ask Joseph Mooney and Jenny Marcroft to come and launch our incredible report for us. 

>>Jenny Marcroft:  Kia ora koutou, e mihi ana ki a koutou.  I just want to begin by acknowledging Matua George, I haven't had the opportunity to do that, just for opening us up today.  And I also just want to make sure you feel officially welcomed by your members of parliament here tonight to your parliament.  It's a pleasure to be hosting you alongside Joseph Mooney this evening. 

Before we begin the launch of the Access Matters Aotearoa report, Kōrero For Change:  Insights and Actions, just acknowledging the panel.  Tim, thank you for moderating so beautifully well.  Of course, great words of wisdom from Mojo.  We had Kali as well, and Daniel, incredible insights.  Thank you for that, for sharing insights and of course your perspectives.

The discussion has highlighted something really important, that meaningful progress on accessibility comes from bringing together lived experience, research, policy insight, and community leadership.  The Kōrero For Change report reflects exactly that approach.  It draws together insights gathered over the past two years from disabled people, community organisations, researchers, and policy experts across New Zealand. 

One of the key messages that emerges from this work is that accessibility does not sit within a single policy area.  It intersects, as we've heard this evening, housing, transport, employment, public services and increasingly with digital and communication environments.  And as our society becomes more connected through digital platforms and media systems, ensuring these environments are accessible becomes even more important.

I'm the Under‑Secretary, the Parliamentary Under‑Secretary for Media and Communications and a piece of work that I've been involved in is looking at what are we doing with captioning and audio description and seeing if we can do a bit more, put a bit more pressure on our broadcasters to do their share to increase the legal of CAD that we have at the moment.

As society becomes more connected through these digital platforms and media systems, we must ensure that these environments are accessible.  And that's, I believe, more important than ever.  Reports like we're about to announce tonight help bring together these experiences and insights that can inform practical action, constructive conversations about how we continue improving participation and inclusion across New Zealand. 

It is therefore my pleasure to formally launch Kōrero For Change: Insights and Actions.  And a very warm thank you to Access Matters Aotearoa and to everyone who contributed their time, their knowledge and their experience to this piece of work.  I'm going to hand over now to my parliamentary colleague, Joseph Mooney, who's got a few words to say as well.  Thank you for that.  [Applause]

>>Joseph Mooney:  Good evening, tēnā koutou katoa, and thank you Jenny.  Thank you, Rebekah and Amy, for your leadership in helping pull this together and to all of our parliamentary colleagues here tonight.  All of you, thank you.  I've heard you've had a very good day, some very good discussions and this panel discussion was a very good one, so thank you Tim for moderating that.  And a very important discussion at that.

Accessibility is something I know from my work as the Chair of the Social Services and Community Select Committee, but also personally with family members and also as a representative for my electorate, and it's something I know is incredibly important for a huge number of people.  It's not just the individuals themselves who need that accessibility, it makes a huge impact for their family and friends and the wider community.  So it's important for all of us. 

The perspectives we heard tonight highlight the value of bringing together lived experience, research insight, community leadership and policy thinking when considering how accessibility can continue to improve in New Zealand.  The Kōrero For Change: Insights and Actions report that's just been launched reflects exactly that kind of collaborative effort.  By bringing together insights from across communities, organisations, researchers and policy experts, the report contributes to an important national conversation about accessibility and participation. 

It also reminds us that accessibility intersects with so many areas of public life, including transport, housing, employment, services, digital environments and education.  Work like this helps ensure the experiences and perspectives of disabled people are part of the discussions that shape future policy and practise. 

I would like to acknowledge Access Matters Aotearoa for the work involved in bringing together the Kōrero For Change series and for producing this report.  Thank you to everyone who's contributed their time, their knowledge and their lived experience to this really important work.  And thank you to all of you for being here tonight for this really important discussion, conversation and for your ongoing commitment to improving accessibility across New Zealand.  Thank you.  [Applause]

>>Dr Rebekah Graham:  Thank you so much, Joseph and Jenny.  Thank you for your graciousness in agreeing to host us and for launching our report, thank you so much. 

It's been an absolute privilege to be part of Access Matters Aotearoa and I am incredibly proud of the team and proud of Dianne, David, Natasha, and Elizabeth for all their hard work in getting us here.  It's certainly taken a team to pull it together and do all the work involved and, of course, incredibly thankful and grateful to Kimberly and Juliana for their work in getting Kōrero For Change up and running, getting the initial idea and running with it. 

We're very privileged to be able to draw together all of the information from the series.  And in particular I'm really proud that this is a self‑determined piece of work.  This was done by disabled people for disabled people and centred disabled people throughout.  So it's been an absolute privilege to be cheering everybody on and saying fantastic work, keep it up. 

>>Amy Hogan:  I think in a lot of ways that's where Co‑Chair, that's our main role is cheering people on.  And our hope is that this is the spark that will start the next conversation, the next practical steps towards real accessible change with not just a Kōrero For Change, it's action for change.

And I believe that we have both the data which has been talked about, but we also have the resourcing, we have the will, and now we just need a coalition of the willing in all areas of parliament and to use the good word in the sense of good regulation that can give accessibility in Aotearoa teeth.  So that's the challenge we're laying down. 

>>Dr Rebekah Graham:  Thank you, and a big round of applause to the team for the report.  [Applause] 

>>Gina Rogers:  Congratulations then to Access Matters Aotearoa on this work.  Imagine where we might be in 10 years time, imagine what a win might look like.  We have discussions here about trying to get homes that are accessible; what if not only you had a home that was accessible, but you could go and visit your friends because theirs was accessible as well.  If you got into your local school and it was a local school that worked for you and you could go to swimming lessons because it didn't matter if your teacher aide wasn't there and you were still able to attend.  That you could get the diagnosis that you needed, and not because of a post code lottery, or because you happened to be talking to the right person, but because the system was there to support you.  And then when you got your diagnosis it wasn't the end of the line; there was a whole system of health and connection and social services and the things that you needed to have a great life and a life that looks similar and has the same hopes and aspirations as everybody else. 

So the challenge then for Access Matters Aotearoa, and for all of us, is to take this document and see what we can do when we come and meet here again in ten years' time.  So congratulations to you all and it's my pleasure to invite Matua George Konia to close for us. 

>>Matua George:  Tēnā tātou.  Tuatahi, I want to thank our ministers for your manaakitanga.  Secondly, thank you, I've enjoyed listening to your kōrero.  And I just want to say to you you've got some awesome paddlers of your canoe.  Nō reira, tēnei te mihi ki a koutou katoa.  It's been a privilege for me to be part of this to listen to all the kōrero, just awesome.  Just carry on paddling that waka and you'll reach those distant horizons. 

Nō reira, I'll close with a short karakia, a short mihi and a waiata and sing a bit louder please. (Te reo Māori).  This song is about aroha, and there's the words.  (Waiata Te Aroha).  Tātou tātou e, we're all on the same canoe.  [Applause]

>>Dr Rebekah Graham:  Let me invite you to stay for drinks and anybody else and for those who have to leave, thank you so much for being here, I really appreciate it.  And I think we've got about half an hour, 45 minutes where we can stay for drinks and anybody else, so stay, have a drink, something to eat.

Ends